Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey everyone, how's it going? Welcome to the last episode of the Friendly Show for 2024. This is Adrian and Jaro. How's it going, Jaro? How are you before this holiday season?

Speaker 2: 0:17

Oh, actually excited. I watched Home Alone 1 and 2 yesterday with my wife before going to bed, so it like switched their holiday mood on. We also just put the Christmas tree and, yes, feeling festive, oh wow you started early.

Speaker 1: 0:36

So, uh, I want. One movie that I like to watch from time to time is actually Bad Santa it's it's a little bit of a christmas movie, but it's also, uh, you know, a different type. It's not really home alone, ish, uh. But, uh, you know, we're going, we're gonna power down a little bit, we're preparing to power down over the holidays. So tomorrow, uh, actually, I'm gonna go to my mom's place and then my dad's place and then my wife's parents, so we're gonna have this tour and we'll probably do home alone in one of those places. So it's a good idea it's a good idea.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Well, this week you were definitely not powering down.

Speaker 1: 1:14

I sent a couple of issues into the Abo repository and I saw you like fixed them like so fast oh yeah, well, if they make sense, of course we are pretty active and pretty fast on on fixing especially broken things. So yeah, definitely um yeah, actually, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:35

I recorded a couple of other videos this month, so I'm also satisfied with that oh, I saw that you're really caught up with all the avocool, avocoolness actually, and we had a lot of uh, I told you about this that we have a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:51

I learned a lot from your video because I think, for example, in the first video, you did a lot of bootstrapping, a lot of, like, you know, installing device and making sure this is done and that is done, and that's basically like, hey, man, we should like avo is designed to work with a lot of other libraries, like, if you want a different library for authentication, you can use something else, but we should do that for you. Like, I think you should get started much faster when using Avvo. So, thanks for you know going through that. And you know, one thing that I love about your process is how you talk about what you think, what you're thinking about. So you know, that kind of is a great indication for us, okay. Okay, this is what our user is thinking, so this is how we can fix things. So, yeah, I love those videos.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Yeah, on one hand, I also like doing this kind of code alone videos that last like 20-30 minutes and I show all the errors that you can come up with while coding and talk through them. But on the other hand, I'm thinking of experimenting with different formats, like making more short-form content, and not many people really sit through the whole 20 or 30-minute video.

Speaker 1: 3:13

Yeah, I feel that short-form is definitely something that everybody's been talking about this year and everybody's saying you know, this is the future. Some people say it's the future in e-commerce as well, and those are cool as well. I mean, I watch. I quite enjoy seeing watching Westboss doing a lot of short form videos. But, that being said, I love the long form videos and you know why.

Speaker 1: 3:40

And I think you touched upon something when you said that about the errors that you're encountering is when, so, for example, when you said that about the errors that you're encountering is when, so, for example, when you're seeing this tutorial, that is just perfect.

Speaker 1: 3:51

You know, you write the right command, everything gets outputted, you restart the server whenever you need to and everything just goes along perfect. I mean, that's great. But in real life, sometimes you get errors, you get things not aligning and things breaking, you get conflicts, and you being there and talking through those errors helps other developers first of all, see what the error is, debug that particular error. It helps the people watching learn how to debug errors. It helps the people watching learn how to debug errors, and then it's a more natural process that everything is just perfect and yada, yada, yada. This is your app. You run these three commands, everything is perfect. So I kind of like that. And the third thing that I like on long form videos is you kind of see how the other person is working If they have this special keyboard shortcut or you know they select their tags differently or whatever and you basically level up a little bit.

Speaker 2: 4:50

As a developer, you kind of pick up on different things along the way yeah, but I'm also thinking like with all these uh ai coding assistants, uh, like I know I was making a video a couple of years ago on how to add the device Invitable and I'm just thinking, would there be any value if I created this kind of video now? Probably not, because somebody using cursor or GPT or like GitHub compiler could just ask them and they would give more or less a good implementation. So, like answering frequently asked questions, or like I think it's not something for future video formats, like not worth making a video on the topics that can be easily answered by ai yeah, I know, I see what you mean.

Speaker 1: 6:02

Uh, there's there a good point there. There's one thing that I don't know exactly is how new developers are actually working, because from my experience and talking to other developers kind of in, let's say, my stage or, like you know, mid to senior, that have maybe five or more years of experience, maybe four to five years, I haven't seen them. Um, you know, use ai as much, like you know, like everything you do, it's, it's ai. So we had a round of interviews we are trying to hire somebody, um, at avo, and we told them in, we, we with some, with a few, we actually went to the, you know, to the what do you call it? Skills. We actually did a pair programming session and we told them, like, you could do whatever you want, so use whatever you would use in your daily, you know, life. It's not a whiteboard interview, it's like. This is the feature, this is the thing, the task that you need to do. If you're Googling stuff, that, if usually you ask I do that. If you go to like previous projects and you pick up, you know different pieces of code, do exactly that, even ask us and whatever. So it's all good, we don't want you to like be that perfect, you know, engineer, that can write the solution on a blackboard.

Speaker 1: 7:19

So, uh, and we've seen two candidates that was that they were like immediately reacting, going to chat gpt immediately, like they wouldn't google for it, they wouldn't check the docs, they wouldn't do anything like that, they would just ask chat gpt. And I thought that was interesting because me that I, you know, we didn't like, like yourself, we didn't have chat gpt back in the day, we didn't have any ai, we would just google things we'll you back in the day we didn't have any AI, we would just Google things we'll, you know, stack overflow or whatever resource we'd find, and we would take that. But they, they just go to ChatGPT. And again, I may not have all the information on this, but usually what the information that ChatGPT gave them, it wasn't the best for that scenario. It was definitely not the best for that scenario. It was definitely not the best for that scenario. And you know, that kind of led to us not hiring that those people because they couldn't understand and parse that information that chat gpt gave them, because basically they didn't understand the problem very, very well, even though chat gp tried to explain it, but, you know, probably their prompt was not very good. So, um, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 8:25

Again, me coming from a medium where we didn't have ai before we basically started googling. We started, uh, learning how to google better, better I think that's a very good skill to have and, uh, you know, we started to understand the problem because you have to read what others are writing. Why did that solution work for them, and so on. So you started to understand the problem because you have to read what others are writing. Why did that solution work for them? And so, once you start to understand the problem way better than getting a snippet that looks perfect from like an AI bot and placing it in your project I'm not sure that that is the right way to learn development.

Speaker 2: 9:04

Yeah, it's a good way to. It's a good distinction, like learning programming and actually doing programming. So like, uh, if you just use ai to do like the bulk of work for you, are you actually learning? I don't know yeah but uh.

Speaker 2: 9:23

But in my daily work process, code completion helps a lot. I've been using GitHub Copilot for a long time now. I really love the code completion feature. I sometimes use the chat, but the code completion it's just like pure productivity enhancement. It's wonderful, and just this week I paid for Cursor and well, it is objectively better than GitHub Copilot.

Speaker 1: 10:00

Yeah, I agree. I agree, At least the Copilot that I uh, probably a year ago or something cursor kind of like you know, has a better implementation, I feel, and it kind of knows what I'm trying to do, especially when you're trying to like format a few things differently. You know, it's just perfect. But I don't use the ask ai feature that much. I have asked it a few times but it's. I don't think it's that maybe I don't know how to use, but I don't think it's that clever yeah, I, uh, I ask it from time to time.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Yeah, yeah and uh, how are the results?

Speaker 2: 10:34

uh, you have to put a good model, so like there are weaker models, there are stronger models and the results are very different. So you mean prompt, yeah, yeah, okay yeah yeah, yeah, no no, no, I mean, I mean not not my prompts, but like you can select which model to use, like um, okay model.

Speaker 2: 10:57

Okay, sorry, yeah, I gotcha, I gotcha yeah like model 01 or something else and depending on the model, the results can be of a different quality and actually I've tried also doing some Hotwire native with it and I kind of opened the Hotwire native repository like the library itself. With the cursor and with it having the context of the whole library, it generates some rich components. So it's not perfect but it gives quite good results.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Yeah, I mean, if it can get you like 80% there and you have the experience to take that 80% and turn it to 100%, then that's amazing. But what if you don't? What if you don't know what that 80% is right, those components, the thing that it gives you? So, yeah, I think that's a big misunderstanding about how to use AI in coding misunderstanding about how to use AI in coding and chatGPT itself.

Speaker 2: 12:06

I mean, I don't ask while I'm coding. I don't ask questions to chatGPT anymore. I've got either GitHub compiler chat or the chat in Cursor, and for chatGPT I would ask more open-ended questions that don't need a context of a repository yeah, yeah, like if you wanted to code the tinder clone, how would you do it? What would that?

Speaker 1: 12:33

database modeling look like yeah, I think another good example is I use it to generate bash scripts because I I don't like passion everything, so I just tell it you know, take these files and you know do a transcription or like, merge them or whatever, and it does it pretty, pretty well. So and then, like I'm that beginner developer which I don't care about that, I don't want to learn bash and just give me the freaking script, I want to put it there, run it and everything should just, so it does just work. So, yeah, um, but this is only for my personal stuff, it's not for production or anything like that. But, yeah, code completion is amazing, so you definitely should try Cursor. This is not sponsored or anything.

Speaker 2: 13:15

Yes, if you are not using AI for improving your coding and productivity, you're definitely missing out.

Speaker 1: 13:25

Yeah, I think that's the distinction. Yeah, productivity. So what else have you been doing lately? What you know at your daily work? I know you worked a lot with Hotwire Native lately.

Speaker 2: 13:43

Yes. So, like the whole result, the whole summary of all my work with hotwire native is the hotwire underscore native underscore rails gem that I've created this month. That kind of generates all the helpers, routes, controllers that you would want in a rails app to hook it up with a Hotwire native app. So, in a couple of days I'm going to release a video about using the gem and how you can really quickly make Hotwire native work in your Rails app.

Speaker 1: 14:20

Here's the question Would that be PR-able in the hotwire native um repository um? Would that?

Speaker 2: 14:30

be a good addition. I mean, the hotwire native repository is it's like the actual two repositories one is hotwire native ios, one is hotwire native okay, uh, android and this is something separate. It's like rails generators for hotwire native so uh yeah, something could be added to like turbo rails, but most of it I don't think so yeah, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 15:06

It's cool, it's cool. I'm looking forward to the video. I'm really looking forward to the video, um, to see everything yeah, and uh, what are your holiday plans?

Speaker 1: 15:16

yeah so we're we're gonna go to see our parents, um, so we're gonna spend like two days at my mom's and then two days, two or three days at my dad's, and then we're going to go at my wife's parents' place. They have a house outside the city and they have like the barbecue there and everything that we need to like be outside and be indoors, and a lot of our friends are going to come over. So it's just going to be, I think, about five, six days of just, you know, chilling, being billing, being with the family, with the kids, uh, and, you know, just trying to offload some of the stress and everything that happens at work and, you know, getting ready for the new year.

Speaker 2: 15:58

That's basically it so family sounds so nice yeah, what about?

Speaker 1: 16:04

what about yourselves?

Speaker 2: 16:06

uh, so we had family visiting until now. They just left, so it's going to be us for the holidays. Uh, some friends are going to come over. We are going to visit some friends that live around, but uh, yeah, we're going to stay, uh, around where they live okay, how?

Speaker 1: 16:24

how are the holidays in can? Oh, I mean, it's not snowy of course you sent me a photo from the beach like a month ago or something.

Speaker 2: 16:36

Of course it's not snowing yeah, I went to swim in an outdoor pool a couple of days ago and outdoor pool a couple of days ago and, uh, it's fine, it's fine, yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Do trees get? Uh, you know, do you have like christmas trees and everything? Do you have like christmas decorations in in khan?

Speaker 2: 16:54

um, I mean, I think all european cities have like weihnachtsmarkt. It's like uh, this christmas uh village where they put these booths and like a glue vine, this like hot wine with, uh, yeah, fruits yeah, so uh no, no matter where. I think it might be, even in the south of spain, that they have this christmas, of course of course, yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:21

So me and paul went to vienna. We, we met up with Julian Rubish, we worked a little bit for a week and there were so many Christmas villages around and we had so much wine and red wine and everything. When I got back home, and that was like mid-December, I had the feeling that Christmas was gone. Like, why are these people buying Christmas trees? Why are these decorations? Like Christmas was, you know, just done. But I think that's a little bit about that, speaks a little bit about how Vienna, you know, embraces the whole Christmas spirit and everything. So that was weird.

Speaker 2: 17:59

Yeah, Vienna is a very beautiful city. I really like it.

Speaker 1: 18:03

Yeah, tell me. So. We did talk a little bit last time about what we did this past year. Do you have any highlights? Anything you think about dearly. It could be about Ruby development community. It could be about you know, ruby development community.

Speaker 2: 18:25

It could be about anything else, I mean like the biggest highlight of the year for me was definitely my son, watching him develop new skills every day. He's like a year and a half old now, so seeing him crawl, seeing him climb up and down the sofa, seeing his first steps, it's just like the best feelings one could have.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Yeah, it's tough to describe that. I was thinking about it and, while I was thinking about the conferences and AVO and everything but the same, seeing my son grow because our sons are about, I think, nine months apart or something, so they're pretty similar in the stage where they grow every day. Again, like seeing, like you said, like seeing him grow, seeing him doing a lot of new things and learning things it's something that you can't really describe if you haven't, if you haven't went through it. So, yeah, it's definitely a good highlight.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Yeah, and I love to see your son. When I visited romania for friendly rb in september and always when I see him I think, oh, my son is going to be able to do more is the same stuff in like nine months yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah, you had fun.

Speaker 2: 19:58

You had definitely had a lot of fun yeah so, and number two for me would be like all the ruby conferences I visited this year and all the wonderful people I met. You know, it's so cool, like you see a person online and like the person kind of already exists in your head, and then you meet the person in real life and you grab a beer. It's uh, uh, all the so cool yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1: 20:29

yeah, remember in 23 I think 22 or 23 uh, when there there weren't that many conferences, I mean, and that there wasn't so much activity around Ruby and Rails. And now there are like so many events, conferences, meetups, all kinds of virtual stuff in Europe, in the US, in Asia and everywhere. It's everywhere. And I just love that and I feel that you know there's this community of this melting pot that you know. People go to different conferences, they meet up, then different groups they split up and meet at different conferences. So it's kind of this other family that we have, this other group of friends that you can't really come and show to your family or to your current group of friends, because you just have that context of, yeah, we're in that Ruby community, in that Rails community, so, yeah, that has been great as well.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Yeah, but you know, it's also so funny. I meet many people from Ruby community when visiting different conferences, maybe more often than I meet my friends who live like a kilometer away.

Speaker 1: 21:45

I agree, I agree. I know I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I agree.

Speaker 2: 21:51

That's awesome, yeah, yeah number three, like highlight, would be launching SuperRail's subscriptions and starting to create some like subscriber only content, which really got me thinking differently about what I want super rails to be, what kind of value I want to deliver to, like, people who watch super rails who want to solve problems with ruby. So I'm thinking of new ways to make Super Rails even better, apart of just creating paywall videos.

Speaker 1: 22:30

That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome to hear. I think that's a good step that you took to actually build Super Rails and have your own website, your own platform, and I think you know I always said that about your content that it was very thorough and you know it wasn't just fluff content and you taking it to your own platform. I think that this is the proper next step and you should focus more on that. I think it's a great idea.

Speaker 2: 23:01

Yeah, that I think it's uh, it's a great idea. Yeah, and uh also like uh, you know, uh, I'm like kind of my big hobby passion is creating all these uh, uh screencasts about how to do different stuff with the ruby, and uh, now I see like there's so much activity, so many people writing high-quality blog posts, so many.

Speaker 2: 23:26

YouTube channels popping up and I myself just can't follow all the great educational content that I would like to consume for Ruby on Rails to consume, uh, for ruby on rails and I'm thinking how how can I not just like create videos that people want to watch but don't have time to watch, but actually do something more engaging, more deep? So I'm thinking of doing, of trying to maybe focus more on like super real meetups that's, that sounds good, that sounds amazing.

Speaker 1: 24:06

I mean uh kind of, I know you told me about office hours at some point, but I think, yeah, meetups are would be great, could be like an extension of the videos, extension of the content and, uh, I think you should give it a try as fast as possible.

Speaker 2: 24:21

Yeah, I mean not like physical meetups. Yeah, yeah, yeah, virtual.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Yeah, I got that, I got that. Yeah, I think you should do that, and what would be the format there?

Speaker 2: 24:32

I'm thinking it would maybe be like well, at least I would start with a Zoom call where I know how many people want to join the Connect and we either discuss some kind of general topic or solve somebody's problems.

Speaker 1: 24:53

Yeah, I think that's great. You should just start out and see how it goes. It's part of the being lean part.

Speaker 2: 25:07

Yeah, she's also really excited about the cyprals, meetups, new people to smell.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Of course, of course, uh, that's great. Yeah, let us know how it goes. I am looking forward to seeing that. So january that's going to be the first meetup, probably uh, probably, maybe, probably, maybe sooner.

Speaker 2: 25:19

We'll see.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Yep, yep, yep, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 25:27

And what about AVO? You said you're winding down and are you going to start fresh from the 1st of January or like long vacation?

Speaker 1: 25:39

No, we're going to start fresh in January. So we have so many things on our plate right now. We're working on so many things and I feel that we started. We have about five or six big features ongoing. We started we, we built kind of the proof of concept for them and we just need to, you know, put our heads down and actually finish them, and finish them at the level of polish that we like and we know that the users are going to get the most value of.

Speaker 1: 26:14

So some of those features are. So one of it is collaboration. So you basically are on a record and you can collaborate with other people in real time. You can have this comment system, uh, the status updates, maybe replies. We actually did a lot of work there in our vienna trip.

Speaker 1: 26:32

Uh, we worked on a few low code features as well. You know, in memory resources and in memory you know attributes, and right now I'm working on something that I'm, uh, pretty excited about. It's a media library feature where you can inject things into tricks and other. What you see is what you get libraries, which is pretty cool. So I'm pretty deep into how active storage and tricks work, and I think we got the you know the worst part, like the difficult part, out of the way and we just need to apply the polish. So a lot of things um happening, a lot of things. We started a lot of things in the past few months maybe, and we want to finish them in the next year. But yeah, I was gonna be a little bit more complete and it's gonna allow you to build more complex and um more complex apps for your business yeah and uh, you mentioned the like uh interactive features, like uh adding comments to resources.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Yeah, if you're not mistaken, either active admin or administrator.

Speaker 1: 27:37

When you run the like installer, it also adds something like active admin comments and you could comment on any resource yeah so, uh, in theory this sounds like a cool thing it's kind of like that yeah, it's a little bit supercharged, we haven't played around with that uh, but we we kind of have our own take on it because it's more than it's just comments. It's about like status updates kind of getting a little bit of a timeline overview of what happened to that record uh over time, so you can specify whenever you post. You know you publish a post or something, so you'll see that in the timeline. You're gonna have uh reactions on there. So it's a little bit more than just a commenting comment system it.

Speaker 2: 28:20

Can you mention something about?

Speaker 1: 28:22

low code. Yeah, oh yeah, this is something that a lot of people asked for. So right now, whenever you need to do a change on a resource, you want to add, for example, a new attribute, you have to be on your local host, add the run a migration, then add a configuration on the resource and then push your code. But we could do some things just on the server. So think about it in production you go on a resource on a record and say, okay, I want this record to have this other field and we just add it for you and then you can just, so basically, you can give your non-technical kind of users non-developers the ability to improve and enhance Avvo on the fly in your production server. So that would be like on attributes, and now we're playing around with like creating virtual resources for it. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. We don't yet have it all together, but it's pretty cool that we could do it if we wanted to.

Speaker 2: 29:18

Virtual resources would they be stored in the database or somewhere else? Yeah, that would be stored in the database or somewhere else.

Speaker 1: 29:26

Yeah, that would be stored in the database.

Speaker 2: 29:28

Yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 1: 29:30

So, yeah, being you know, we actually me and Julian and Paul we actually had quite a few conversations around this about what's the best approach, because there are a few. We could actually run migrations. We can send those migration to your GitHub account, to your Git repo and everything, and those are probably next iterations, but right now we want to be able to give that dynamic behavior to people, to be able to create those resources in memory.

Speaker 2: 30:03

Yeah, be able to create those resources in memory. Yeah, I think you also mentioned some time ago about having like boilerplate apps like AVO. Can't Believe. World app or, like AVO, issue tracker app.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:21

So that sounds like good kind of mini apps that anybody could just uh run yeah for sure.

Speaker 1: 30:30

So one of the one of the dreams is like, like I told you in your first video, like you had to do a lot of stuff still. Still, you had to do a lot of things to hook it up properly. And one of the things that we want to do is at some point have kind of like the starter kit around avo. It's not going to be sass, it's going to be because not all apps are sass. You know it's going to be like for internal tooling and crms and cmss and then have more other ones tailored to that.

Speaker 1: 30:55

So basically, if you need a lightweight crm, you can just go in the template labor, template labor library. You choose it, you click and you have it in your GitHub account or somewhere on your local machine. Or you need like an issue tracker, like a support request app. You just click that and boom, you have it. You don't have to build so many things and then you'll have it in the Apple mode so you can maintain it over time with everything just hooked in properly and multi-tenancy and everything that you need. So you know, that's kind of the dream. We're going to start prototyping that in the first part of the year, next year.

Speaker 2: 31:34

You know, I always thought of it like we've known each other for quite a long time now and I never really made any videos about avvo. And only this month I felt like I feel comfortable enough with the tool. I know the tool well enough so that I can like make a, let's say, qualified video about it. So I'm happy that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 32:03

That's awesome. Yeah, thank you for those. Yeah, I think that's. It's like every tool has its life cycle, like its timeline. Even ava, like two years ago, it wasn't like this, it wasn't as powerful and you know it kind of grows, grows and grows in popularity, grows in like the use cases that people can use it, and this comes natural, that you know people are maybe curious about it. Like you know, it made you curious. Yeah, I could maybe make a video for it. So, yeah, it's probably like one of those things that a tool has to mature a little bit.

Speaker 2: 32:36

And I wonder so you've been like focusing on Avvo for a few years now, like all in and do you ever have any like distracting other ideas? Oh, I want to build like another product that would do x or y. Do you like only work on avvo or do you also let this intrusive thoughts? Uh, and maybe like a, do you spend some time on prototype and anything else?

Speaker 1: 33:05

So about a year ago I'd probably my answer would be only every day I do that, like I think about, you know, other projects. But now I think, once I kind of settled on like, okay, avvo is valuable is, you know, can become a business, can become this big thing, then you know, let's uh, you know, double down on that. So you know, I'm having less and less of those thoughts like, of course I can think, okay, we can make this crm, I can, we can use this feature and this feature and it's better than whatever you know, it's better than what one particular commercial solution there. But uh, we, just me and paul, both we're just, you know, down on this. We know that this is valuable, it brings a lot of value to teams and we want to make this the biggest thing ever, because if you go in too many directions then you're going to stretch yourself thin and it's not going to work. So, not anymore, not so many ideas.

Speaker 2: 34:03

Okay, so yeah, I think it's a wonderful wrap up that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 34:11

How is it to work from home with with your son, uh?

Speaker 2: 34:16

so, uh, we have more or less schedule like uh, he wakes up at around uh seven in the morning and, uh, uh, goes to sleep at like 10 o'clock, then goes to sleep again at like three o'clock and then goes for the nighttime sleep at seven in the evening. So I know that I can be productive, like very productive, while he's sleeping. Uh, I do a lot of work in the evenings, but I also go to an office every like other day yeah so like, if I want to like, they like 100 productivity uninterrupted for eight hours I go to the office.

Speaker 2: 35:00

But uh, sometimes I just want to be close to him.

Speaker 1: 35:06

Yeah, I know, I know it's a tough choice. Yeah, right now Oliver is going to daycare and before, like a month before, I was actually thinking of, oh, I need to get myself an office space, like go somewhere co-working. I cannot work like this because it's wonderful because he comes next, work like this because you know it's wonderful because he comes next to you and you know, daddy, let's play and whatever you want to play, and you do that. But then at the end of the day it's like I didn't get too much things done.

Speaker 2: 35:35

so, yeah, it's a balance definitely yeah, like I understand why somebody would want to work from an office. Yeah, but like you should find a balance and you should like spend time with the family and you should also be productive.

Speaker 1: 36:02

Yeah, for sure, deliver, deliver on both productivity and happiness. Yeah, okay, cool, it was nice, uh, catching up. Um, what do we say to our listeners?

Speaker 2: 36:17

well, come on, guys. Uh. Happy merry christmas, happy new year. I hope you had a wonderful year. You found good jobs, you learned programming, you started your own businesses? If not, then 2025 is the year for everything to happen. I wish you. We wish you, first of all, all success with love and family. Second of all, yeah, don't delay, like finding love or making kids too much. The time is now. Don't fade, no matter what, and learn Ruby, build products. Focus on delivering value. I don't know, it's okay. I couldn't have said that better man.

Speaker 1: 37:16

That's perfect. Merry Christmas, everyone. See you in the next year.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Bye-bye.