also good and darkly, but I mean, and heaven what I'm hot seat having the and like. If you have ever visited a ruby and rails conference, chances are you've met nick, because this man has spoken at over 100 ruby events. So welcome nick.
Speaker 2:
Thank you hi hey, how's it going, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:
well, it's the fourth day, so I arrived at this prior to the conference.
Speaker 2:
Conference is amazing. The talks were amazing, I had really good chats with the audience as well, and I'm actually looking forward for the after party because I'm yesterday's yesterday's from like three or four days of meeting people, basically, and constant chatting and discussing service objects versus SQLite in production for my PAs versus no yeah so you're the author of a few important tools like trailblazer or slots in cells.
Speaker 1:
So cells sounds like a jigger it's not tells something to me. Okay, if you had to say what is trailblazer in one sentence, what would you say?
Speaker 2:
it's a framework for structuring your business logic is it something like uh ddd? I think we pick up a lot of concepts from ddd unintentionally. So I actually started reading the ddd book a few weeks ago because apparently what we have as a service object we call operation is a use case. So, and then I think we also have this bounded context concept somehow integrated I I'm not there in this chapter yet in ddd.
Speaker 2:
So next week, when you finish the book, you're going to rewrite trailblazer number three, where we change the about context and whatever ubiquitous language or whatever, and you change all your talks to like okay, I will get more talks than ever. Yes, which is actually not what I want anymore. That's, that's what you. I just don't want to travel anymore to, like I don't know, from Brazil to Japan and the Finland, which sounds like it was tough sometimes.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's me um, yeah and the second question slots sales.
Speaker 2:
So again, I cannot get a chance, so cells in one sentence.
Speaker 1:
Sales is view components before you go.
Speaker 2:
let's put it that way ourselves it's view components with less maintenance because we don't have millions of dollars backing a developer, A lucky, very lucky developer and a very nice guy. I had a long call with him when he came up with view components. He kind of apologized for copying stuff. But I told him, dude, you have the dream job. Yeah, yeah, go for it. I was pretty jealous, nice. But I told him, dude, you have the dream job.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, go for it, right? Yeah, I was pretty jealous.
Speaker 2:
Nice, so you're talking today, in one hour, I guess the last talk. Yeah, it was also the last talk at Friendly RV and I don't know why people do that to me, but someone's getting to the job. If you're a star, if you're a superstar, you're a superstar, you gotta take it like that's probably because I'm the best drinker, I know exactly what it is. Yeah, you gotta take it now, like whether you want who you are yeah, exactly, exactly, I think we can pull through.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, perfect so what drives you to travel around the world and do all these talks?
Speaker 2:
in the beginning it was um the quest for knowledge, the quest to see other countries. I also like to be, you know. I mean it's kind of nice to get attention and this kind of stuff and it was also to promote my stuff, yeah, and to be honest I maybe it's getting older or something, but I kind of enjoy this part, yeah, most currently like the meeting my old friends, meeting new friends, talking about software, but not too much, because actually I think we spoke about everything already.
Speaker 2:
It's like we have a couple of other things too no, no no, this is family.
Speaker 2:
I I really enjoy the social side of of of traveling, and I'm not traveling so much anymore. It's just like two or three conferences per year. I would, I would love to, to get a talk from you, like just about speaking, like, hey, how it started, how it went, uh, why I did it, why I do it now, and like maybe you can give the same talk. I mean, you're also traveling to hundreds of comments. Come on, thank you, but no, no, no two or three years more and you will.
Speaker 2:
You'll be the one closing, of course. Of course I learned from the best, but uh, let's be somewhere else. No, I'd love to get to hear that I mean, I like the technical talks and everything, but I'd like to.
Speaker 2:
I like more about like the stories, the people, the feelings and everything. I like those things. Actually, that's the big art of speaking in general, I think is the mix of putting technical stuff in combination with funny stories. I mean, today my talk is very non-technical. I had I don't know 10 code slides or something, because it's more about like how we built trailblazer as a product. People who are listening cannot see that, but it's in quotes.
Speaker 1:
Yeah well, I think, when this in conferences or going for any trip, the thing that you remember the most the last years is the connections uh, you made, the people you met years is the connections you made, the people you met.
Speaker 2:
It's yeah, it's an incredible high, it's priceless, you know. I mean, giving a talk is people will talk about it for five minutes and they will forget, but the friendships that evolved over the decades is it's the best really, and that's because conferences are a perfect occasion for that. You, yeah, you have the same interest. You go for a drink and it's kind of like there's no awkwardness or anything. Yeah, when so I, I most like I only saw you like these, like I, I want to see small conferences but you know more.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the the nice ones. I love these.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, man, right same, here it's the same, but when was the last time you went to like a big conference?
Speaker 1:
oh my god, um I I would have, it must have been definitely six, seven years ago.
Speaker 2:
I, to be honest, like I'm thinking of rails conf I only landed a rails kind of gig because engine yard was paying me like they had a sponsored gig, a sponsored slot. Here we are slots yeah and they kind of um asked me to speak. That's why, otherwise I think I think that was the biggest and it was also in Brazil. One of my first talk was in Brazil in front of like thousands of people. That was crazy, but that was ten or twelve years ago. Was that tropical, not?
Speaker 2:
no it was a sub follow the Ruby conference and then I I remember that because I had 800 new followers after this talk, I mean they were just following me and you got these notification emails from from twitter back in the days and then I had like five pages of clicking next delete. That was pretty cool. I was like I don't know mid beginning of 30s and found this is a cool thing, it's a cool thing right now.
Speaker 1:
I deleted twitter and they all gone yeah, nick, what do you do for a living?
Speaker 2:
um, I try to make trailblazer a product. No, I mean, I, I I try to do consulting as much as possible with tribe as a related projects. Refactoring is our big passion, basically, and, uh, you work on the gems and hope that some at some day we will become like abo or something that we have a reasonable amount of of income. I was actually quite um fascinated by your figures. It's not that you just do like 2 000 euros per year or something, I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:
It's great.
Speaker 2:
It really inspired me to push harder for the product version, because I think there will be companies paying for using our stuff and we'll see maybe I can see that's a decent salary.
Speaker 2:
I think it's interesting that, like we asked you like a year, I asked you what do you do for a living? And you didn't specify, you didn't say anything about playing, like singing, like a band no, but that's not for a living. I mean, you mean, like what's my interest? So they actually I won't speak for five hours, but I thought what it brings me, the, the dough, yeah, yeah, I mean I have lots of hobbies and you know sports and stuff. So, like work life balance is probably working in my case, but it's probably working too well because I'm I'm not like this millionaire with with a fast car. Yeah, I've never run renault kangaroo with no wheelbase. I I I saw quite a few developers that are you singers and I think it's, like you said, like a perfect balance of offloading the web, the development and doing some creative stuff.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's actually my favorite part of the songwriting, because you finish a song and it's done forever and it will be in 50 years. 50 years people will still listen to the same song, yeah, whereas sales 2.5 and 5.6 will delete the slots and it's an ever-changing environment and software drives me crazy. Actually, my talk has a lot about this kind of dynamic in open source developers life and how can our listeners find your band?
Speaker 2:
um, the band is a german name. It means brutally, which was kind of an accident. We were joking about another band and the name stuck and then we, we kept going with it. We are on spotify, apple music, whatever youtube. So give us a like and you should throw a link. You should throw a link to that. In the trailblazer footage website. People just know, okay, I'll go through. Yeah and listen footer website. People just know, okay, I'll go through. I try not to mix the two things too much because it will make me look even less professional.
Speaker 2:
It's cool, it's cool. I have just one more question about conferences. Do you have like a favorite one, like a special one, like you know the year 2001, or one or?
Speaker 2:
1900, or I mean there's one, uh, I mean the recently I really enjoyed friendly RV in Bucharest, actually the craziest conference. I was there and it was, um, I think it was called magma con for something. It was in Mexico and it was in the wild days when github still sponsored like a conference with like literally the currency was bottles of mezcal, wow, and it was in this beach resort and everyone had houses and we had mezcal bottles and it was cool parties every night and talking about the other entertainment stuff because it might be inappropriate for exactly, but that was kind of the craziest conference. I. I don't remember any talk, but the beach parties and it was crazy, like it was really wild. You know we gotta bring that back.
Speaker 1:
We gotta bring those back. Well, I'm here.
Speaker 2:
I mean, friendly was already quite close yeah, just the beach was missing. Beach, yeah, I will figure that out. Quite close, yeah, just the beach was missing. Yeah, I will figure that out.
Speaker 1:
Some sand and I love the venue in in friendly. I mean, it was amazing. Yeah, it's gonna be cool, yeah, um, yeah, okay, thank you for joining our short episode. It's not so true, but this is short, friendly podcast, thanks a lot, nick, and thanks for, like all the you know, the conferences.
Speaker 2:
Thank you, guys, for your support and um hope to see you soon in life, in real life, see ya.